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Welcome Hi, I'm an admin for the community. Welcome and thank you for your edit to Furude Rika! ' '. It's an easy way to keep track of your contributions and helps you communicate with the rest of the community. If you need help getting started, check outour or contact me or here. For general help, you could also stop by Community Central to explore the forums and blogs. Please leave me a message if I can help with anything. Enjoy your time at ! User talk:Sparkadillia Furude Rika Mannerisms: I do not have access to the Japanese manga ''currently. Will check to see "what," if anything, they are translating as "sir." This does not happen in the ''anime or in the English translations of the Sound Novels so far as I have played. TheDoctorX (talk) 07:02, October 27, 2016 (UTC) : :: Yen Press (the official American publisher of the manga) has those . I think it's something like an established tradition, since it seems too stupid to me to make up. 21:04, October 28, 2016 (UTC) Looking at those I only see the English translations. I would need to find the Japanese version to see what, exactly, they are translating as "sir." With some searching, I found a more recent manga ひぐらしのなく頃に　心癒し編 with a page in Japanese . . . then found the English translations . . . Rika does not say "sir." Soooo . . . I will keep searching. TheDoctorX (talk) 00:34, October 29, 2016 (UTC) :: Oh, that. That's how they convey her overly polite tone. I thought everyone knows that she's known for saying なのです, and it's the expression you're looking for. She does not say "sir", she does not even use any honorifics when addressing someone in the original, but she does speak in excessive keigo (not the kind you would ever hear or see in writing IRL). In my own translations i tried to make her sound as polite as possible, but added something that amounts to "so" or "you see" in English, i. e. translated なのです quite literally. 09:28, October 29, 2016 (UTC) When you say "my own translations" are you the translator of the English manga? The reason I ask is I am nowhere near competent to translate complex Japanese. So it would be a kid who just learned calculus trying to argue quantum mechanics with a physics graduate student! So forgive me if my arguments approach that level of non-sophistication! ^^, I can appeal to a native Japanese translator if that helps. Anyways, the problem I have with that rendering is everything I can find both online and offline describe it as adding a polite to subjective explanation for a statement. Hence the "so" or "you see?" "Sir" is still extremely deferential in English. In fact, it is now even more deferential since most people do not use it outside a military hierarchy. This is definitely true of The Kids These Days . . . even The Kids These 80s Days. Japanese was then, and still is, more formal. Japanese Kids These Days may not be as formal, but in an adult-kid relationship like parent-child and especially parent-teacher they are expected to use them. Heck even American Kids These Days do not tend to call their teachers by their first name. Rika not using honorifics for adults, especially, is "jarring." The adults tolerate it, because she is miko and "reencarnation of Big Scary Deity" and all of that. I think it is Akasaka who quietly wonders about it. In English she would be a child calling her teacher by just the last name or even the first name. Why she never uses them--even to people she loves and admires like, well, Akasaka, is left for us to ponder. So . . . she is going to use "sir"? It makes no sense, and I do not think it conveys her character. It would be like a grade school child telling her teacher, "Crabtree, I need to be excused to use the bathroom, sir." TheDoctorX (talk) 03:05, October 31, 2016 (UTC) :: No, i'm just a man who single-handedly and unofficially translated all eight original VN arcs from Japanese into my native language. Which one or where to download (or look at screenshots of) my releases, that's not hard to find out at all. I don't like "sir" too, it looks especially unnatural when she addresses a female, but that's the traditional rendering (and i've no clue as to what its origins are). I take her not using polite suffixes for a sign of ease, familiarity, whatever you'd call that; imagine a noble maiden who knows her noblesse and speaks dignifiedly but looks up to nobody (i. e. does not consider anybody a higher being). She considers every word she speaks when in "polite little girl" mode — it takes some effort to preserve the image, — but she takes advantage of her high status in the village to treat everyone as if they are equals. :: Also, damn, that reference is OLD. But i'd say her speech manner is something like "I want my dear friend Crabtree to kindly dearly (sic!) allow me a journey to our beloved lavatory". Well, i'm probably exaggerating, but that gets the point across. Basically, her speech pattern is a mix of familiar, childish, and aristocratic polite speech topped with some slightly incorrect grammar for extra flavor. 16:32, October 31, 2016 (UTC) That is fine! Incidentally, "Miss Crabtree" is a reference to the teacher in Calvin and Hobbes, a true classic of English literature! Anyways, I noticed in the official/licensed English translations of the manga they use "sir." So I imagine there is a reason; however, in the anime they do not. To my recollection, they do not use it in the translations for the visual novels--but only the first two are released in English on my platform and Rika is only a minor character of sorts in them. I did contact a friend who professionally translates Japanese into English in Tokyo. Lived their for years, Japanese wife, kids, all of that. For example, he understands why Mion refers to herself as "uncle/old man" in Japanese which appears strange for English speakers. So I will see what he says and let you know. When he does I can update that section to explain that "Sir" in the English manga is a translation of なのです blah blah blah. Now that I think of it is really Hanyū's catch phrase. There is even a song about it! Even the funny preview section in the anime where Rika asks her about her horns--which is "Bleeped"--she responds with なのです repeatedly. Translating it as "sir" would be wierd. However, in the regular scenes in the manga, "sir" seems to fit Hanyū since is so lacking in confidence, timid, embarrassed, and all of that. Her responding "sir" all of the time "fits" her character is what I am trying to convey. Perhaps the translators also used it for the few times Rika uses it just to be consistent? TheDoctorX (talk) 03:48, November 1, 2016 (UTC) :: Oh, not so old then. My guess landed some tens of years before that series. Yes, please do let me know. I want to see whether my Translator's Notes are correct or not. 20:25, November 1, 2016 (UTC) At long last, an answer. And I am right! PRAISE ME! Seriously, my friend the translator writes: Here's how my 日本語の先生 ''Teacher--Ed. ''explained it to me many years ago. Just plain です is unmarked. So, e.g., 「風呂敷です。」 would be "It's a furoshiki" (とても便利ですよ！) (Sorry, I still remember that conversation from the first chapter of my first 日本語 textbook.) The なの (or just の or even ん depending on the context) is like in saying "It's that . . ." or maybe even "Because . . . " It adds a little emphasis before だから　for example. So it connotes a reason. 痛い。　It hurts. 痛いの。 It's that it hurts. For example, if you were offered some ice cream but you don't want it because it makes your teeth hurt you could say 歯が痛いの: it's that my teeth hurt. The の conveys that this is the reason why. なのis just a variation of the same thing except used after a noun, whereas it's just の following an adjective or verb. And before だから the の becomes just ん. 痛いんだから！ Because it hurts!! However, んだから sounds like you ought to know this, like "Because X, dipshit!", so be careful with that one. Which is what Rika says when she uses it--she gives an explanation. Return to the example I give of Hanyū answering the question about her horns in the anime: "*****なのです！" with "*******" representing the "bleep" the creators intentionally made as a joke about the fact no one in the anime notices she has horns when clearly she does! It is not "Sir." She is saying, "because of course they are horns!" with the "horns" being bleeped out. Hanyū uses this phrase all of the time, and since she is so servile and afraid and all of that, her need to give an explanation to everything she says seems "weird." To keep translating her always intimidated responses with a long "because I ____" perhaps using "sir" works for her. I think the manga ''translators simply extended that translation to translate when Rika uses it. That is not an attack on the ''manga translators: I sure as שאול that!--Ed. could not translate the manga if you dangled $$ and Rena-Takano Yuri fanfiction before me! ^^, So my criticism is the classic "those who can't do art, critique." I will note that in some extra manga that have been made by fans but appproved by the author and all of that do not use the "Sir." Also, the anime does translate Rika saying なのです with "Sir." TheDoctorX (talk) 09:47, November 8, 2016 (UTC) And my friend just wrote back to me: Yeah, its definitely not "sir". It's kinda like "'cuz" in English but it comes at the end of a statement in Japanese because the order of things in Japanese tends to be backwards from English. Or "that's why." Again, with Hanyū always sheepishly muttering a justification for whatever she says, it may be easier to translate it as "sir." However, I agree with the professional that even in that case, rendering her over-explaining everything more correct. TheDoctorX (talk) 10:46, November 8, 2016 (UTC) :: >> That is not an attack on the manga translators: I sure as שאול that!--Ed. could not translate the manga if you dangled $$ and Rena-Takano ''Yuri'' fanfiction before me! Sorry, but that example was so funny i couldn't contain my laughter. Although i don't know whether the sheer randomness of it amused me so much, or was it your Keiichi-esque boldness. :: However, i expected an explanation on Rika's speech manner overall, but it's probably a misunderstanding on my side. If you didn't actually mean to ask your friend for full details, i apologize. : Response Thingy: Glad you liked it! I like to keep these things "light" because on "Wiki" people can miss context and tone. I finished a major fight with someone on something not terribly important on another subject than this page . . . where we both basically "talked pass one another." Embarrassing for the both of us. ^^, So it is easy to come off as lecturing and all of that. Besides: ^^, Decency prevents me from posting those pictures and video of Takano playing a flute. . . . Anyways, I am jealous you have access to the later games. Not available for my platform. For the standpoint of this Wiki, all that really matters is accuracy. You, thankfully, clarified "what" was being translated in the Japanese. This is not translated as "sir" in the anime. It is in some of the official licensed manga releases--but not all of them. Different translators are simply going to translate differently. It would be nice if we could get an explanation from the translator(s) in question. We can agree/disagree on that translation for Rika, but we would know why he chose to translate it as he did. Sort of like explaining the joke in the anime ''over Hanyū's horns. I might have liked to see them portray the issue as in the Sound Novel, but they decided not to and there we go! TheDoctorX (talk) 07:07, November 10, 2016 (UTC) : Response Thingy-II Because I missed a few points. My friend does not read ''manga or watch anime as far as I know. I have explained the series simply because I like the basic plot, twists, all of that you know. I started with the anime because I wanted something "scary" for Halloween . . . watch the first four episodes and thought, "wait . . . they're all . . . dead?" Blah . . . blah . . . then we find about Rika . . . blah . . . blah. So I could explain to him "what" Rika is--a roughly 5-8 year-old girl depending on how far she gets sent back--who keeps dying, reliving a bunch of same patterns/scenarios, over and over for the equivalent of 100 years. In some ways, mentally, she is an adult, jaded. Some things like her sudden coldness and lack of empathy make complete sense when you realize--as we eventually do--that she sometimes declares a life "worthless" since she knows it will fail and sort of amuses her self/gives up/what have you. Sooooo . . . he understood how "jarring" it would be for her to refer to adults by just their last names. The author never explains it as far as I know; I think it is just a biproduct of her having lived with them for so long, seeing them die, and becoming jaded. It is like how she confesses she started to distance herself from her mother until in some scenarios they have a very bad relationship if any. So he agreed that such a character saying "sir" made no sense, particularly given the Japanese. According to him, it simply is not translated as that and it does not mean that. I defer to him since he actually translates Japanese as a job as oppose to me . . . . . . . . . who simply searches for Rena-Takano Yuri Fan-fiction. ^^, TheDoctorX (talk) 07:18, November 10, 2016 (UTC) :: And i think it'd be hard to translate some of her lines as explanations in English. Take, for example, this epic quote . Sure, you can translate it as "I'm bad... that's why" or "Damn it... you see", but... well, her using なのです too much is supposed to sound weird, after all... hmm... 16:36, November 9, 2016 (UTC)